conuly: "I'm not a puzzle, I'm a person" (puzzle)
conuly ([personal profile] conuly) wrote2011-01-10 02:55 am
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Ugh.

Well, apparently closely-spaced second-born children are more likely to be on the spectrum than first-borns or those spaced further apart.

The comments are a morass of "FOOD COLORING! DOES ANYBODY REALLY KNOW ANY GRANDPAS WITH AUTISM???" (Hi, I do!) and "TV WATCHING! THAT STUDY WAS SOOOOOO WELL DONE!" (No, it wasn't!) and "OMG, VACCINATIONS, BIG CONSPIRACY!!! (Uh-huh, you keep saying that!) but this one takes the cake:

There was study conducted to understand the risk of autism based on genealogy. The researcher chose to examined Amish people since they live in a closed society. In case you didn't know, roughly 65% of Amish have the same surname. When they first came over, their were about 300 families. Since their lifestyle isn't that appealing they rarely get new blood. They try not to get closer than 3rd cousins, but still they all pretty close. This of course increases the chance of defects greatly. So reason dictates they would have a greater percentage of autistic children.

S/he goes on from there with the same-old, same-old "Oh, the Amish don't vaccinate and they don't have autism and it's so not a coincidence!" line.

To all this, I can only say the following:

A. Logic doesn't work like that.
B. Genetics doesn't work like that.
C. YOUR PREMISES ARE ALL WRONG! Why do people have this asinine idea that the Amish don't vaccinate, or that they don't have any autism? It's not because they bothered to look up the facts for themselves - you'll notice this person has no idea what study or researcher they're talking about. No, they just repeat the same old tired lines that were worn out the first day anybody ever said them. (And they weren't true then either.)

Oh, and she also goes "As you may know, Autism was unheard of prior to 1900 (right around vaccines were widely introduced). Though many would simply say that it existed but people were simply unable to spot it back then, riiiight. "

That doesn't even merit a response. I mean, I have a few (and they're longer than two words!), but she doesn't deserve the energy.

Re: The Amish

[personal profile] dragonwolf 2011-01-11 12:49 am (UTC)(link)
I can't find any info on the Internet about my local Amish community (the Holmes County, Ohio ones), but I know the Lancaster, PA community does, in fact, vaccinate (at least some of them). From what I've found, they also have Autism, it just presents differently, and those on the higher functioning end aren't as separated out as in our culture (why should it be, when the main purpose of Amish life is simplicity and service to God?).

Of course, the differences re: Autism in the Amish community couldn't have anything to do with the fact that they eat almost exclusively local, or that they're a genetically different population from the rest of the Western world, or that their use of other technologies that could be contributing factors is far, far more limited than ours.

*facepalm*

Oh, also, the same surname doesn't necessarily mean two people are closely related. Names like Schlabah and Yoder are more or less the Amish equivalent of Smith and Johnson.

[identity profile] leora.livejournal.com 2011-01-10 08:28 am (UTC)(link)
Inbreeding leads to an increase in genetic problems that exist in the genetic pool that is being in-bred. That's how you get things like "the island of the colorblind" that Oliver Saks wrote about with an island where a rare form of colorblindness where the center of the eye that is usually predominantly made of cones, which are what perceive color, is instead made of rods, which is what most people have primarily for their peripheral vision which is more useful for spotting motion and for dark vision, but has no color vision at all. People with this condition are extremely photophobic, have less visual resolution, and no color vision (as opposed to more common types of color-blindness such as red-green where people still see colors). But the point is, it's common there, because the genes for it existed and concentrated.

But likewise, take an isolated group and if a gene is absent, say Tay-Sachs which is a risk for my ancestry but is fairly uncommon for many people's ancestries then they can inbreed to their heart's content, they can do sibling-sibling and they have a higher risk of Tay-Sachs from out-breeding than they do from inbreeding. Sure, there is the chance of it randomly mutating and re-arising in the gene pool, but that isn't any more likely because of inbreeding.

So, if autism is a purely genetic trait (which isn't clear and seems unlikely but might be... I'm really not sure at this point) then you'd have to see how prevalent the gene was in the community.

Which I know, you made that point. I just... it's baffling how people can throw such bad arguments around. I have found that with inbreeding in particular people tend to have a lot of misunderstandings. I think it's because they tend to combine a small amount of understanding of genetics with the incest taboo and squick. Even though a single generation of incest isn't actually genetically necessarily a risk to the children (unless you have good reason to believe your family carries a fairly dangerous recessive). And less squicky matings but carried out over multiple generations can actually be a problem, if they do involve cumulative narrowing of the gene pool. Although it does also maximize good traits... see purebreds/thoroughbreds for some of the best and worst of both ends of that.

Oh wait, sorry, logic, reason, facts, data... what on Earth am I doing on the internet?

[identity profile] rantinan.livejournal.com 2011-01-10 10:08 am (UTC)(link)
Yeahhhhhh *looks at family history* Rigggggght


I have a more than two word response for the commentators:
I;ve got an f, and a C.. Oh look I found a K too
So the only thing that's missing is a twit like U
ancarett: (Break Time)

[personal profile] ancarett 2011-01-10 02:14 pm (UTC)(link)
Well, that particular scenario fits our kids. They're 17 months apart. Eldest is NT, youngest is on the spectrum.

Stupid anti-vax commenter is very ignorant, I must say. Unsurprising!