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conuly
Well, she's my mom.
Interestingly, during the same talk it came up about a few months earlier when my high school had found out that I DO NOT say the Pledge of Allegiance. And they called my mom, and then basically told me that she's not backing me up, and we came up with this lame-ass compromise where I was just late to third period every day.
Apparently what actually happened is my mother told them they were stupid, said she had no interest in fixing a problem caused by THEIR ignorance of MY rights, and said they should deal with it. Which they did... by lying to me about what my mother said.
I had thought this was remarkably inconsistent with my family, but it never occurred to me that the dean would just lie to my face. (Then again, after I had the guy for health the next term it should've. I seriously disliked him. Fortunately, the feeling was mutual and I ended up doing independent study. Nice when things work out, right?) OMFG! I should've sued!
Man, I am NEVER compromising my principles again just because my mother doesn't back me up, especially when she actually does. (No, I don't know why I didn't discuss it with her later that day. Maybe because it didn't occur to me there was anything to discuss? Who knew I was lied to? OMG!)
I'm seriously tempted to write the school a note about this. That was SO not right.
Coincidentally, here is an article about a group wanting to ban the Pledge of Allegiance from their local schools. Contrary to what people say, this would NOT prevent small children who wish to say the Pledge from saying it. Really, there's nothing stopping you from making your children say whatever silly things you like at home.
But going through the comments, here's the thing that I just don't get. Every time any issue regarding free speech comes up that can even tangentially be connected to atheism, hordes of people come out of the woodwork to go "Well, what about money? LOL, do you not use money because of in god we trust? LOL!!!!"
Aside from the fact that they think they're clever when they're really not, I don't understand why "in God we trust" is okay with Christians! Isn't there some kind of commandment about taking the Lord's name in vain? Doesn't it sort of cheapen your religion to have cheesy signs up in stores saying "In God's name we trust, all others pay cash"? Isn't it wrong to (to borrow some religious phrasing here) yoke God and mammon together? Isn't there something about moneylenders and camels and needs which I am SURE can somehow be applied to putting God's name (more or less) on cash???
It just doesn't make sense. Forget about whether or not it offends atheists, am I missing something? Why doesn't this offend Christians? I just. Don't. Get it.
Interestingly, during the same talk it came up about a few months earlier when my high school had found out that I DO NOT say the Pledge of Allegiance. And they called my mom, and then basically told me that she's not backing me up, and we came up with this lame-ass compromise where I was just late to third period every day.
Apparently what actually happened is my mother told them they were stupid, said she had no interest in fixing a problem caused by THEIR ignorance of MY rights, and said they should deal with it. Which they did... by lying to me about what my mother said.
I had thought this was remarkably inconsistent with my family, but it never occurred to me that the dean would just lie to my face. (Then again, after I had the guy for health the next term it should've. I seriously disliked him. Fortunately, the feeling was mutual and I ended up doing independent study. Nice when things work out, right?) OMFG! I should've sued!
Man, I am NEVER compromising my principles again just because my mother doesn't back me up, especially when she actually does. (No, I don't know why I didn't discuss it with her later that day. Maybe because it didn't occur to me there was anything to discuss? Who knew I was lied to? OMG!)
I'm seriously tempted to write the school a note about this. That was SO not right.
Coincidentally, here is an article about a group wanting to ban the Pledge of Allegiance from their local schools. Contrary to what people say, this would NOT prevent small children who wish to say the Pledge from saying it. Really, there's nothing stopping you from making your children say whatever silly things you like at home.
But going through the comments, here's the thing that I just don't get. Every time any issue regarding free speech comes up that can even tangentially be connected to atheism, hordes of people come out of the woodwork to go "Well, what about money? LOL, do you not use money because of in god we trust? LOL!!!!"
Aside from the fact that they think they're clever when they're really not, I don't understand why "in God we trust" is okay with Christians! Isn't there some kind of commandment about taking the Lord's name in vain? Doesn't it sort of cheapen your religion to have cheesy signs up in stores saying "In God's name we trust, all others pay cash"? Isn't it wrong to (to borrow some religious phrasing here) yoke God and mammon together? Isn't there something about moneylenders and camels and needs which I am SURE can somehow be applied to putting God's name (more or less) on cash???
It just doesn't make sense. Forget about whether or not it offends atheists, am I missing something? Why doesn't this offend Christians? I just. Don't. Get it.
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no subject
Date: 2011-09-12 06:27 am (UTC)1) Fuck yes
2) About time
3) Good on them
no subject
Date: 2011-09-12 12:38 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-09-12 05:55 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-09-12 01:43 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-09-12 08:00 am (UTC)Yes, but placing the name on money isn't taking it in vain. The phrase "in God we trust" shows reverence towards God; the location of the phrase itself doesn't matter.
Doesn't it sort of cheapen your religion to have cheesy signs up in stores saying "In God's name we trust, all others pay cash"?
It's tacky, sure. (But kind of funny.)
Isn't there something about moneylenders and camels and needs which I am SURE can somehow be applied to putting God's name (more or less) on cash???
Er... no, not particularly. Money itself is spiritually neutral; it's the love of money that's "the root of all kinds of evil." It has to do with the person's heart, not money itself.
And the quote you're thinking of is "It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the kingdom of God," the context of which is a verse (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark+10&version=ESV) about a rich young man who wanted to follow Jesus but was unwilling to give up his possessions to do so. Again, this has to do with the person's heart, not the money itself.
So no, putting God's name on money is not in and of itself offensive.
no subject
Date: 2011-09-12 04:36 pm (UTC)Too often adults have this mistaken, arrogant idea that children will "understand when they are older", when what that translates into is "change their mind to agree with me even though many adults don't agree with me right now". This attitude needs to be slapped down whenever it can be. So knowing that you are all grown up and feel disappointed with them can be helpful.
no subject
Date: 2011-09-12 04:47 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-09-13 12:22 am (UTC)And when they were come, they say unto him, Master, we know that thou art true, and carest for no man: for thou regardest not the person of men, but teachest the way of God in truth: Is it lawful to give tribute to Caesar, or not?
Shall we give, or shall we not give? But he, knowing their hypocrisy, said unto them, Why tempt ye me? bring me a penny, that I may see it.
And they brought it. And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription? And they said unto him, Caesar's.
And Jesus answering said unto them, Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's. And they marvelled at him.
-- Mark 12:13-17, KJV
I include the bit about the taxes to explain that Jesus had no problem with paying taxes, which is pretty funny to me considering the leanings of many tax evaders. My major takeaway from this, though, is that Jesus never thought a government's money ought to have any connection with God, and that in fact it should stay separate.
This is somewhat in opposition to the other saying which you reference, from Matthew 6:24: "No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon."
In the verses from Mark, he seems to be saying that circumstances sometimes demand you serve two masters, as long as they aren't in conflict with each other -- that if the government makes demands on you that have nothing to do with God, such as paying tribute to Caesar with Caesar's money, then you can go ahead and meet those demands. But Mammon is the love of money, and love of money is incompatible with love of God, whereas service to government isn't always incompatible with service to God.
As for the moneychangers, I don't think Jesus had a problem with them as such -- given the many different types of currency then in circulation, if you wanted to do any business when traveling, you had to have your money changed -- he was just pissed off that they were set up in the Temple. That's not quite the same thing as having something about God written on your money.
Anyway, I don't find anything really conclusive about whether or not it's okay to have the name of God written on your money, but it does seem like a mix that shouldn't happen. What I wonder is how Orthodox Jews deal with this, since they believe God's name shouldn't be written on anything, especially not something that gets passed about from hand to hand and could be defaced.